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Ndindiriyimana Augustin ati “Mu ijambo rya Sindikubwabo nta guhamagarira Abahutu kwica Abatutsi byari birimo”

General-Major Augustin Ndindiliyimana, wahoze ari umugaba wa Gendarmerie y’u Rwanda mu buhamya yatanze mu rubanza rwa Laurent Bucyibaruta ushinjwa uruhare muri Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu Rwanda, yahamije ko mu ijambo Perezida wa Leta yiyise iy’abatabazi, Sindikubwabo Théodore yavugiye i Butare  ‘nta guhamagarira Abahutu kwica Abatutsi bya birimo.”

Tariki ya 19  Mata mu 1994, Perezida Sindikubwabo ari i Butare, yasabye Abanyabutare “Gukora” ntibabe ba “Ntibindeba”. Mu rubanza rwa Laurent Bucyibaruta ruri kubera i Paris mu Bufaransa ku ruhare rwe muri jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi,  mu buhamya bwatanzwe na Ndindiriyimana Augustin, umugabo w’imyaka 79 y’amavuko wasabwe n’ubwunganizi bwa Bucyibaruta, akaba ari mu buhungiro mu Bubiligi yavuze ko ‘Mu ijambo rya Sindikubwabo nta guhamagarira abahutu kwica abatutsi byari birimo”. Ibi yabivuze ubwo yari abajijwe n’urukiko ngo ” Kuri wowe Sindikubwabo ni umuntu wahamagariraga abantu guhagarika ubwicanyi?”

Atangira ubuhamya bwe, Ndindiriyimana yavuze ko ubwo jenoside yabaga yari umugaba mukuru wa jandarumeri,

Ati “Bucyibaruta namumenye ndi ched d’etat major wa jandarumeri ubwo najyaga ku Gikongoro mu kwezi kwa gatanu 1994 nshaka aho twagombaga kwigishiriza abajandarume.

Twakoranye akanama ibihe byari bigoye nta bushobozi twari dufite buhagije kuko abajandarume bari ku rugamba abandi basigaye bari mu bice binyuranye, twashakaga kureba uburyo twashyiraho agace twari gufashirizamo impunzi zahungaga imirwano uko FPR yagendaga ifata uduce twinshi.

Si Bucyibaruta wenyine nabonanye na we ahubwo nabonanye n’abandi ba perefe uwa Kigali, Cyangugu, Kibuye na Gisenyi bose tuganira ku buryo bwo gufasha abantu. Aha ndababwira ibyo yasubije igihe perezida Sindikubwabo yamubazaga impamvu kwica bigikomeza kandi haratanzwe amabwiriza ko bigomba guhagarara.

Yarasubije ati ‘Hari abantu baza bahunze, hari amabandi, hari abasirikare batera bakica abantu. Icyo nicyo gisubizo yatanze kandi si we wenyine wabivugaga ahubwo hari n’abandi baperefe babivugaga gutyo. Nzi ko ku Gikongoro ahantu henshi hagiye Hashyirwa abajandarume ariko babaga ari bake mu gihe hari abantu benshi babaga bafite intwaro bigatuma abajandarume rimwe na rimwe ntacyo bakora. perefe ubwo yavuganye na perezida Sindikubwabo tariki 18 mata 1994.Icyo gihe abantu bari barahunze basabwe gusubira iwabo kuko abantu bari barasigaye ku misozi bibwiraga ko wenda abahunze bashobora kuzishyira hamwe bakabatera. hari n’ikindi kibazo kigeze kuba muri Gikongoro aho abaturage bigeze kwaka imbunda abajandarume bakabica. Ikindi nababwira nuko general Dallaire yigeze kuza kundeba ambwira ko hakenewe abajandarume bafatanya n’ingabo za ONU ni muri urwo rwego nagiye ku Gikongoro gushakisha ukuntu twakwigisha abo bajandarume.”

Urukiko: Wabaye Ministre w’urubyiruko igihe kingana iki?

Ndindiriyimana: Ni hafi imyaka 8.

Urukiko: Hari n’igihe wakoranye bya hafi na perezida Habyarimana?

Ndindiriyimana: Ndumva ari muri 1991 nari umujyanama mu bijyanye na gisrikare ntabwo yari domaine yanjye neza ariko perezida yampaga dossiers nagombaga kwigaho, ubundi akanshinga ‘enquete’ nagombaga gukurikirana.

Urukiko: ukomoka muri perefegitura ya Butare niba ntibeshye . Andre Guichaoua akuvuga nk’umuntu wabashije gukora akazi nubwo hari icyo kibazo cy’ivangura ry’uturere?

Ndindiriyimana: Nabavuga ko muri guverinoma ari njye njyenyine utari warabaye depute, mu bya gisirikare nahawe amasomo muri Ecole de guerre byatumaga mbasha gukora akazi neza ntagiye mu matiku yabagaho muri icyo gihe cyane cyane igihe hazaga amashyaka menshi.

Kubera intambara ububasha bwa jandarumeri bwabaye nk’ubugabanyuka kuko byageze aho igice kimwe cya jandarumeri cyagiye mu ngabo kugirango abajandarume ba Kacyiru babashe guhangana n’ibitero bya FPR kuko byari bimaze kugaragara ko Kigali yonyine itihagije ni muri urwo rwego abajandarume b’i Butare na Kibuye bose twabohereje i Kigali, ubwo si njye wari ukibayobora.

Urukiko: Nyuma yuko chef d’etat major aguye mu ndege ya Habyarimana wagiye mu cyiswe comite de crise, ni iki wayitubwiraho?

Ndindiriyimana: Ku ya 6 mata nari i Kigali, nka officier mukuru nahamagaye Dallaire n’abandi basirikare bakuru barimo Bagosora n’abandi, twaravuganye ngo turebe icyo dukora. Ni muri urwo rwego twohereje Bagosora na Dallaire kuvugana na Jacques Roger Bobo kureba icyakorwa atugira inama ko guverinoma yari iriho yakomeza tukabaza MRND ku muntu yabonaga wari gusimbura Habyarimana.

Njye nk’umuntu wari ushizwe kuyobora iyo comite de crise nagombaga gufatanya na chef d’etat major ariko wari utarajyaho ngo turebe uko twakemura ikibazo cy’umutekano, col Bagosora ni we wakoraga nka ministre w’ingabo, chef d’eta major waje kujyaho ni col Marcel Gatsinzi ariko nyuma y’iminsi mike mbere yuko ukwa kane kurangira hashyizweho undi chef d’etat major wabaye Augustin Bizimungu.

Urukiko: Tuzi ko muri Kigali ibintu byakomeje kuba bibi, abantu bakomeza kwicwa, ni ryari abajandarume batangiye kujyanwa mu ngabo?

Ndindiriyimana: Nta gihe kihariye navuga bajyanwe, navuga ko nyuma y’ihanurwa ry’indege akazi kagombaga gukorwa na jandarumeri na MINUAR gasa n’akahagaze kuko general Dallaire yatanze amabwiriza ko ingabo za MINUAR zidasohoka.

Mu ntangiriro twibwiraga ko wenda ibintu bizagenda neza kugera nko ku itariki 11 wabonaga bitaraba bibi cyane, guhera tariki 11 FPR yatangiye kwigarurira ibice bimwe bya Kigali byatumye ndetse tariki 12 guverinoma ihunga ibyo rero byatumye ibintu bihinduka.

Urukiko: Ese ubonana na Bucyibaruta yigeze akubwira uko yakoranaga n’abajandarume?

Ndindiriyimana: Ntabwo twabivuganye ahubwo navuganye na komanda wa jandarumeri major Bizimungu.

Urukiko: Uwitwa capitaine Sebuhura wigeze umwumva?

Ndindiriyimana: Namwumvise mu rukiko.

Urukiko: Ntabwo bigeze bakubwira ko abajandarume bagize uruhare mu bwicanyi ku Gikongoro?

Ndindiriyimana: Ntabyo bigeze bambwira.

Urukiko: Uzi ariko ko ku Gikongoro abantu bari barishwe nka Kibeho n’ahandi?

Ndindiriyimana: Oya ntabyo nari nzi.

Urukiko: Ntabwo wigeze ubwirwa ko abajandarume bagiye mu gitero i Kibeho?

Ndindiriyimana: Aho ni hafi y’uBurundi ntabwo numva ukuntu abajandarume bari kuva hafi y’umupaka bakajya kurasa impunzi.

Urukoko: Kuri wowe Sebuhura nta gitero yigeze ajyamo?

Ndindiriyimana: Niba byarabaye ntabwo nigeze mbimenyeshwa.

Urukiko: Yaba major Bizimungu yaba Bucyibaruta ntawigeze akubwira ko Sebuhura n’abajandarume bagiye mu bwica? ese ubonana na Bucyibaruta yigeze akubwira uko yakoranaga n’abajandarume?

Urukiko: Ntabwo twabivuganye ahubwo navuganye na komanda wa jandarumeri major Bizimungu. uwitwa capitaine Sebuhura wigeze umwumva?

Ndindiriyimana: Namwumvise mu rukiko.

Urukiko: Ntabwo bigeze bakubwira ko abajandarume bagize uruhare mu bwicanyi ku Gikongoro? ntabyo bigeze bambwira, uzi ariko ko ku Gikongoro abantu bari barishwe nka Kibeho n’ahandi?

Ndindiriyimana: Oya ntabyo nari nzi.Ntabwo wigeze ubwirwa ko abajandarume bagiye mu gitero i Kibeho? aho ni hafi y’uBurundi, ntabwo numva ukuntu abajandarume bari kuva hafi y’umupaka bakajya kurasa impunzi.

Urukiko: kuri wowe Sebuhura nta gitero yigeze ajyamo? niba byarabaye ntabwo nigeze mbimenyeshwa. yaba major Bizimungu, yaba Bucyibaruta ntawigeze akubwira ko Sebuhura n’abajandarume bagiye mu bwicanyi i Kibeho, Murambi,Cyanika,Kaduha?

Ndindiriyimana: Ntabyo nigeze menya bwana pereziga ibyo nabyumvise mu rubanza rwanjye i Arusha kandi abaje gutanga ubuhamya barababajije bose basanga ubuhamya batanga atari ukuri.

Urukiko: Ubwo watwemeza ko ubwo buhamya bwose twumvise bw’abantu bavuga ko abajandarume bagiye mu bwicanyi atari ukuri?

Ndindiriyimana: kuba ntarabimenyeshejwe njye bituma mvuga ko atari ukuri.

Urukiko: Wageze i Butare ryari?

Ndindiriyimana:Nahageze tariki 23 mata 94, ngeze i Butare nagiye mu kigo cya sous officier twumvise amasasu nijoro dukeka ko gishobora kuba ari igitero giturutse i Burundi, nagiye kureba burugumestre wa komini Ngoma, nashatse kwaka renfort i Kigali ariko tugenzuye dusanga atari igitero ahubwo ari abasirikare ba Ngoma hafi y’ikibuga cy’indege barasaga gusa basa n’abatera ubwoba. Ibyo byari bibaye bikurikira ko perezida Sindikubwabo yari yasabye ko kwica abantu bihagarara.

Urukiko: Kuri wowe Sindikubwabo ni umuntu wahamagariraga abantu guhagarika ubwicanyi?

Urukiko: Yego ni byo bwana perezida.

Urukiko: Uzi discours Sindikubwabo yavugiye i Butare n’icyo yavugaga?

Ndindiriyimana: Njye nibarije uwari burugumestre Kanyabashi, mbaza uwari perefe Nsabimana bose bambwira ko mu ijambo rya Sindikubwabo nta guhamagarira abahutu kwica abatutsi byari birimo.

Ikindi nababwira nuko njyewe nkomoka i Butare, burugumestre Kanyabashi yari afite umugore w’umututsi njye sinumva ukuntu perezida yari kubwira abantu kujya kwica ku mugaragaro harimo na bamwe muri ba burugumesstre bari bafite abagore b’abatutsikazi, kuri njye iyo discours yafashwe uko itari .

Ikindi kintu batavuga nuko uwari perefe wa Butatre Habyarimana yavugaga amagambo yahamagariraga abantu kujya muri FPR.

Urukiko: Wavuye mu Rwanda gute?

Ndindiriyimana: Hari igihe byageze abantu bamwe banga kwemera ko twarimo gutsindwa urugamba ndetse n’abasirikare basinye declaration ya Kigeme yahamagariraga guhagarika imirwano bafashwe nk’ibyitso mu gihe nyamara njye nabonaga ari ikintu cyiza.

Ministre w’intebe Kambanda nagiye kumubwira ko abantu batangiye kujya bambuza kunyura kuri za bariyeri, ko hari n’abantu bari batangiye kumbwira ko nshobora kuzicwa Kambanda na we yambwiye ko yari afite amakuru nk’ayo.

Ubwo Kambanda yanditse urupapuro rungira ambasaderi mu Budage ubwo nagendaga nyura i Goma, nkomereza i Kinshasa gushaka visa muri ambassade y’u Bubirigi mba mvuye mu Rwanda gutyo. Navuye mu Rwanda tariki 5 y’ukwa gatandatu.

Urukiko: Wongeye gusubira mu Rwanda?

Ndindiriyimana: Oya sinigeze nsubira yo nubwo hari ababinsabaga barimo cyane cyane nka general Dallaire. Urukiko rwa Arusha rumaze gushyirwaho rwakoze urutonde rw’abantu bo gukurikirana , u Bubirigi bunyohereza Arusha muri 2000 hanyuma ngirwa umwere muri 2011. Nabanje gukatirwa ndajurira hanyuma mba umwere nasubiye mu Bubirigi muri 2014.

Urukiko:Ese watubwira ukuntu abasirikare barindaga umukuru w’igihugu banganaga?

Ndindiriyimana: Yari bataillon imwe y’abantu nka 600 ni bo urebye bahise bajya mu bikorwa byo kwica abantu.

Urukiko: Wigeze kutubwira ko kugera tariki 11 mata ibintu byari bitaraba bibi cyane i Kigali ko hari n’abatutsi bajyaga kuri za bariyeri, ni gute wavuga ko abahutu n’abatutsi bajyaga kuri bariyeri?

Ndindiriyimana: Ibya bariyeri ntabwo byari bishyashya kuko na mbere zari zarashyizweho kugirango hagenzurwe neza abantu ba FPR bashoboraga gucengera mu gihugu, kugera nka tariki 11 cyangwa 12 rero byakorwaga gutyo.

Me Gisagara: Kuri wowe nk’umujandarume umuntu witwa umwanzi ni nde?

Ndindiriyimana: Ndumva ushaka kuvuga ibyakozwe na ministeri y’ingabo, umwanzi icyo gihe twavugaga ko ari umuntu wese ukora ibikorwa byashoboraga kubangamira urugamba byose.

Me Gisagara: Wavuze ko abahutu n’abatutsi bari kuri za bariyeri tariki 11 na 12 ?

Ndindiriyimana: Ni byo nyuma y’iyo tariki nibwo abatutsi bavuye kuri za bariyeri bajya guhurira ahantu hamwe kuri za kiliziya n’ahandi , bo bibwiraga ko FPR ije kubafasha gukemura ibibazo bari bafitanye n’abahutu,  twe icyo twakoze twagiye dushyira abajandarume ahantu hatandukanye nka St Paul, Mille Collines kugirango babarinde kuko interahamwe zari zitangiye gushaka kubica.

Me Gisagara:Uravuga ko abatutsi bavuye kuri za bariyeri nyuma yo kumva ubutumwa bwa FPR bwavugaga ko yafashe Kigali?

Ndindiriyimana: Yego ni ko njyewe mbisobanura kuko nta nubwo navuga ngo barahunze ahubwo bagiye bakurikiye ubutumwa bari bahawe na FPR.

Me Gisagara: Ubwo kuri wowe abatutsi bahungiye za St Paul, za Ste Famille ntabwo babitewe n’ubwoba bwo kwicwa ahubwo babikoze bakurikije inama za FPR ?

Ndiriyimana: Yego ni uko njye mbyumva.

Me Gisagara: Ubwo uratwemeza rwose ko abatutsi bahunze kugirango bishyire hamwe bazatere abahutu bari kumwe na FPR?

Ndindiriyimana: Niko umuturage usanzwe yabyibwira.

Me Gisagara: ubwo uravuga ko abatutsi bishwe ari bo biturutseho?

Ndiririyimana: Abatutsi bishwe kubera FPR kuko ni yo yanze guhagarika imirwano ngo ize dukorane.

Me Gisagara: Uzi ibyabereye ahandi nka gikongoro?

Ndindiriyimana: Ibyabereye ahandi bitandukanye na Kigali, ahandi ubwicanyi bwatangiye butinze cyane urebye hari ibihuha byagiye bivugwa ko abatutsi bishyiraga hamwe ngo bazatere abahutu, hari ibihuha byanavugwaga na radio Muhabura.

Me Gisagara:  Ese uzi ko hari abandi bantu bagiye bicirwa mu ngo iwabo muri Kigali?

Ndindiriyimana: Simbihakana ni yo mpamvu hari n’abo twagiye tujya agushaka iwabo.

Me Gisagara: Ese kuki abo bagiye bicwa kandi batarakurikiye bw abutumwa bwa FPR wavugaga?

Ndindiriyimana: Hari abantu bagiye babica kugirango bigarurire ibintu byabo.

Me Gisagara:uzi ko ministre w’intebe Kambanda yireze akemera ko bateguye ubwicanyi?

Ndindiriyimana:  Ntabwo wakurikiye ibya Kambanda, yivugiye ko yabeshywe na avocat we, ibyo yari yaravuze byose yarabihakanye.

Me Gisagara: Ariko urukiko rw’ubujurire rwarabyemeje urabizi?

Ndindiriyimana: Rwarabyemeje ariko iyo ngingo ntabwo rwayemeje.

Me Gisagara: Watubwiye ko wabaye mu cyitwaga comite de crise hamwe na col Bagosora, ese uremera ko hari ubwicanyi yagiyemo?

Ndindiriyimana: Hari ibyo yivugiye ubwe ko hari ibikorwa yagiye akora bitari bihuye neza n’ibyo twari twemeje nka comite de crise.

 Me Gisagara: Watubwiye ko ibintu byari bimeze neza kugera tariki 11 mata ariko uzi ko hari abanyapolitiki bishwe harimo ministre w’intebe n’abandi ni gute watubwira ko ibintu byari bimeze neza?

Ndindiriyimana: Mu minsi yambere ni byo Agatha yarishwe, Kavaruganda n’abandi baricwa ariko byakozwe na garde presidentielle.

Me Gisagara  : Ese uremera ko guverinoma yagiyeho yari iy’abahezanguni?

Ndindiriyimana: Kuri njye ni guverinoma yemewe n’amategeko yashyiriweho muri ministeri y’ingabo.

Me Gisagara  : watubwira iki ku byabereye ku Gikongoro?

Ndindiriyimana: Sindikubwabo yagiye i Butare tariki 18 mata, hari inama yakoreye ku Gikongoro abaza Bucyibaruta ati k’uki abantu bakirimo kwicwa ,Bucyibaruta amusubiza ko hari abantu barakajwe n’urupfu rwa Habyarimana hakaba n’abasirikare bataye umurongo bakikorera ibyo bashatse.

Me Gisagara  : Ese kuri wowe utekereza ko hateguwe umugambi wo kwica abatutsi?

Ndindiriyimana: Niba warakurikiye urukiko rwa TPIR ntabwo itegurwa rya jenoside ryigeze ryemezwa hemejwe ko bidashidikanwaho ko mu Rwanda habaye jenoside ariko ntabwo byigeze byemezwa ko iyo jenoside yateguwe wowe uracyakomeza kubyemeza.

Ubwunganizi bwa Bucyibaruta: Ese mu kwezi kwa gatanu 1994 waba warashyizwe ku rutonde rw’abantu bitwaga ibyitso bya FPR?

Ndiriyimana: Yego iyo liste nayigiyeho ariko sinamenya umuntu wayikoze sinzi niba ari Bagosora cyangwa undi.

Ubwunganizi bwa Bucyibaruta: Kuba kuri liste nkiyo muri icyo gihe byabaga bisobanuye iki?

Ndindiriyimana: Bivuze ko wabaga ushobora kwicwa igihe icyo ari cyo cyose.

Ubwunganizi bwa Bucyibaruta: Ese uzi ko hari abatutsi bishwe nyuma ya tariki 7 mata bazira ko ari abatutsi?

Ndiriyimana:Birangoye gusubiza icyo kibazo.

Ubwunganizi bwa Bucyibaruta: Perefe Bagambiki wa Cyangugu wagizwe umwere na TPIR waba uzi ko yigeze gusaba abajandarume bo kurinda abatusti yari yahurije ahantu hamwe?

Ndindiriyimana: Yego ndabizi ko yigeze kubikora.

Ubwunganizi bwa Bucyibaruta: Ese wigeze umenya ko mu gihe cya jenoside hari ubwumvikane buke mu buyobozi bwa jandarumeri ku Gikongoro ?

Ndindiriyimana: Byabayeho ariko bidakomeye aho nzi habaye ikibazo gikomeye bikaba ngombwa ko noherezayo n’umuntu wo kubihosha ni i Nyanza.

 

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